Extract Specialty Grains, steep and store?

[JonGoku]

I was wondering if it would be possible to steep the specialty grains for an extract batch in advance of your brew day. Basically it would be something that could be done a couple days (week(s)??) in advance and knock out one step you need to do on an already busy brew day. Other advantages could be to use the already cracked grains as soon as possible, even if you know you wont have time for a full brew day until a couple days or longer down the road.

Anyways, possibly a stupid question, but... why not?

[brahn]

You're essentially making and storing wort. You could probably pull it off, but I really doubt it would be worth the trouble. If you do it, you'd probably want to can it to keep it from souring. It might be ok to do it one day in advance, but you'd still probably want to bring it up to a boil for 10 minutes or so to kill any lactobacillus from the grain before you store it.

[Marotte Brewery]

Since I steep my specialty grains as the water is heating up, I'm not sure how much time is really wasted for this step... Unless you found a way to store your boiling wort for a week... I would be pretty impressed by that...

IMHO, the steep process is like a nano-mash. You are making a very weak wort in which to add the extract. In theory, you could do a full mash using a modified steeping process, but it wouldn't be very efficient... hence a mash tun...

[JonGoku]

Since I steep my specialty grains as the water is heating up, I'm not sure how much time is really wasted for this step...

This is what I did for the red ale batch, and I'm thinking it was not a good idea. The previous method I used I steeped the grains at... hrm I forget the exact temp but I think it was 160-170, and held it there for 30 min, removed grains, and brought to boil. I think this "hold at steep temp for 30 min" method is the better way, but the method you mentioned and I tried for the red seemed so much easier. I'm thinking however that it's inherent to too many different system variables to be an ok for everyone method. Depending on the system, it could take anywhere from 15-60 etc min to brings the water temp from tap/room temp to 170, when you would take the grain bag out.

[kevinham]

I always just did the steep while the water heated up. But I would make sure it took at least 30-45 minutes or longer to get there. If it takes less than 30 minutes to hit 170, just turn it off and let it steep at 160-170 until its been in long enough.

[JonGoku]

I always just did the steep while the water heated up. But I would make sure it took at least 30-45 minutes or longer to get there. If it takes less than 30 minutes to hit 170, just turn it off and let it steep at 160-170 until its been in long enough.

With my set up it would most likely take me longer then 30. What would you consider too long?

[brew captain]

Jon - this hobby takes a lot of time and patience. While you seem long on time (do you actually sleep at night?) you likewise seem short on patience and keep looking for shortcuts. Look here, they have been making beer for thousands of years. The methods in use by todays brewers are tried and true by many centuries of experience. Whenever I have a process question I look to the pros for my answer. The pros do not make their hot liquor, cool it down, store it for a period of time, heat it back up and then boil it to make their wort. Therefore I would not recommend that you use this method.

Not to mention the only way you could probably do this sucessfully without totally skanking your beer is to pressure cook/can the liquor prior to storing. As many of the guys here who can their starter wort can tell you - that ain't no time saver...

So grasshopper, I like you once sought to shorten my brew days and I adopted a bunch of so called time saving steps into my process. The result? A noticeable reduction of the quality of my brews. Quick beer ain't good and good beer ain't quick is what I always say...

Cheers!

Cheers!

[dhempy]

+1 for steeping while heating (I did that exclusively when I did extract)

+1 for the Capn's remarks.

Dan

[brahn]

The methods in use by todays brewers are tried and true by many centuries of experience. Whenever I have a process question I look to the pros for my answer. The pros do not make their hot liquor, cool it down, store it for a period of time, heat it back up and then boil it to make their wort. Therefore I would not recommend that you use this method.

While I agree with a lot of what the captain has to say, I am all for experimentation in your brewing process. Just because a process is old doesn't necessarily make it good. But, you do need to look at it as an experiment and be aware that it could turn out horrible. Then again, it could turn out better than the old process, but you have to take risks to make progress.

As far as looking to the pros, while I absolutely agree in this case, there are lots of cases where what the pros do isn't necessarily best for homebrewers. Some things just don't scale well or might matter on a large scale but not a small scale. Similarly, there are things we homebrewers can do because of the small scale that most pros can't. Should we not do step mashes simply because most commercial breweries can't do them? We primarily use glass or plastic fermenters, but a pro wouldn't dream of doing that. Most breweries only use one or maybe two strains of yeast, should we do the same? The list goes on and on ...

[JonGoku]

Thanks all for the feedback.

My simple reason behind the question was based on "steeping" = "tea". I know I don't can my ice tea every time I put it back in the fridge so I figured it might be a possibility. Since I don't have as much patience as I should (sorry Cap'n) and sadly not the time, I figured it would be faster to get feedback from the gang then try an experiment without any consultation first. I was looking at it as a way to NOT do a shortcut but instead cut the process into segments so it was more manageable.

Although many extract brewers steep their grain while the water heats up, I think this is less controlled and would make it harder to duplicate a recipe in case it turned out stellar. Thus if I were able to take 30 min out of my brew day and put that 30 min (obviously plus prep time) into another day it would make the brew day a little less stressful.

Anyways, thanks all, my question's answered. I'll not be pre-steeping.

Oh, and Cap'n, you better watch out for the President. He'll be upset you stole his thunder and took it upon yourself to bring be down a notch. That's suppose to be his job. hehehe I appreciate the frank advice though

[brahn]

I did think of one other thing. I've heard of at least a few brewers who start their mash at night then do the rest of the brew the next morning in order to break up the process a bit and use the time they have without other obligations. IIRC, this worked well for them and didn't result in any sourness or off flavors.

[JonGoku]

I did think of one other thing. I've heard of at least a few brewers who start their mash at night then do the rest of the brew the next morning in order to break up the process a bit and use the time they have without other obligations. IIRC, this worked well for them and didn't result in any sourness or off flavors.

Interesting. Are saying that these people did not find any bad effects by mashing for hours instead of 60min or however long the mash is normally suppose to be held at?

[lars]

One way I shaved some time off my brewday was to use a counterflow chiller. I saved probably 45mins cooling time. Since then I've gone back to my immersion chiller and use a pump to whirlpool, it takes a little longer, but I have much less trub in the fermenters. Now I sort of wish I hadn't sold the counterflow chiller... but I have enough stuff to build another, so maybe, if I can find the time...

[brahn]

Interesting. Are saying that these people did not find any bad effects by mashing for hours instead of 60min or however long the mash is normally suppose to be held at?

As long as it stays relatively hot the only downside I can think of is that the wort will be more fermentable. If it gets too cool, you've got lactobacillus to contend with...

[JonGoku]

Interesting. Are saying that these people did not find any bad effects by mashing for hours instead of 60min or however long the mash is normally suppose to be held at?

As long as it stays relatively hot the only downside I can think of is that the wort will be more fermentable. If it gets too cool, you've got lactobacillus to contend with...

I wasn't able to find/google the temperature range for lactobacillus. At what temp range should one be concerned?