Oktoberfestbier

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:35 am

Dustin and I are going to do our first lager, and given the time of year, it seems like a perfect time for an oktoberfestbier... I.e. a vienna lager or marzen. This is far beyond my typical comfort zone regarding recipes; I've never made a lager and rarely make this style of beer in general.

Anyone have a good "starter" recipe for us to work off of?

backyard brewer · Post by **backyard brewer** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:26 am

I have a great Oktoberfest recipe. I'll have to look it up what I get home.

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:39 am

I am also planning on brewing a Vienna and an Oktoberfest soon. I posted my recipes in the recipe database so check them out.

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:12 am

I put it into Beersmith, scaled it up to 15 gallons, and made a few slight edits (based on even numbers for ingredients, etc). I also set it up for a temperature mash, since I have the ability with the new brew system to do a proper step mash. Let me know if you see any red flags here... Brewhouse efficiency set to 70%, as I'm still dialing in my system.

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
13.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 38.24 %
10.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 29.41 %
8.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 23.53 %
3.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 8.82 %
1.50 oz Magnum [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 22.9 IBU
2.00 oz Hallertauer [1.50 %] (20 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
6 Pkgs SafLager West European Lager (DCL Yeast #S-23) Yeast-Lager
Irish Moss (10 min)

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.057 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.57 %
Bitterness: 25.0 IBU
Est Color: 12.0 SRM

Mash Profile
Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
30 min Protein Rest Add 40 qt of water at 129.7 F 122.0 F
45 min Saccharification Heat to 152.0 F over 15 min 152.0 F
10 min Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:27 am

Looks good to me except for the dry yeast and the protein rest.

I never do a protein rest. The highly modified malts we use don't really require one and it just adds time to the brew day.

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:17 pm

I just can't leave well enough alone...

I think I'll drop the protein rest, but I've been doing a lot of reading on mash chemistry, so I mixed it up a bit. The style should finish dry, so I'm going to do a rest at about 140 for 20 minutes to break down the short-chain molecules needed for high fermentability. Then I'll bump it up to 158 or so for 40 minutes, to ensure I can break down some of the big chains to add body.

It probably won't taste much different from a single-infusion mash, but I'll certainly feel smart

I was also looking around here, and revamped the recipe quite a bit...

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
28.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
5.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 14.29 %
2.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5.71 %
1.50 oz Magnum [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 22.9 IBU
2.00 oz Hallertauer [1.50 %] (20 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
6 Pkgs SafLager West European Lager (DCL Yeast #S-23) Yeast-Lager

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.057 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.54 %
Bitterness: 25.0 IBU
Est Color: 10.8 SRM

Mash Profile
Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
20 min Protein Rest Add 40.00 qt of water at 150.8 F 140.0 F
45 min Saccharification Heat to 158.0 F over 15 min 158.0 F
10 min Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:12 am

Any recommendations on water? We've typically used Yorba Linda tap water for our beers in the past, but I'm not sure that's appropriate for a clean delicate lager...

I think Dustin has an RO filter, but it will definitely take a few days for him to fill up the 20+ gallons we need for mash/lauter. Given that we're doing big batches, I'd prefer not to have to go buy 20+ gallons of spring water or distilled water...

Any thoughts?

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:36 am

I hear you on the water purchase ... for my 5 gallon Bo-Pils yesterday I wound up buying 10 gallons of distilled water (there wasn't any de-ionized) I mixed the Camarillo water down 3:1 (Distilled to tap) to bring the hardness down from ~400 to ~100 (based on a hardness tester I used).

In the Palmer / Zainasheff book Brewing Classic Styles, they make a good case for using softer water for lighter beers. One technique they mention (besides adding de-ionized / R.O. water) is the following:

1) Add 1tsp Calcium Carbonate to 3-5 gallons of brewing water and stir. This will create precipitation nucleation and growth sites 1.e., seed crystals, and help some of the alkalinity precipitate out.
2) Boil for 10 minutes and allow to cool.
3) Pour the decarbonated water off the chalk sediment into another pot.

I haven't tried this but I think I might. When I do, I'll test the hardness before / after and post the results. I'm pretty lazy though and buying water is pretty easy ...

There should be some additional references on water treatment in Palmer's
How to Brew. Look here. On the third page in there are spreadsheets for alkalinity calcs that you can download. Get your local water report (I just got one for Camarillo) and have at it.

Good luck!

Dan

P.S. BrewMaster Brad: What do you do for lagers? I gotta believe that Corona water is relatively alkaline / hard.

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:29 am

My water is actually not that bad. I have been using John Palmer's Residual Alkalinity spreadsheet for my past several batches to adjust my water. I have not been cutting my tap water with RO or distilled. Here's my water report.

Sodium - 62ppm
Potassium - 2ppm
Calcium - 34ppm
Magnesium - 10ppm
Total Hardness, CaCO3 - 127
Sulfate - 19ppm
Chloride - 71ppm
Carbonate - 3ppm
Bicarbonate - 87ppm
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 - 76ppm

I have also been adjusting the pH of my sparge water down to about 6.5 using lactic acid.

According to Palmer, it's all about RA so making the adjustments according to his calculations should solve any water issues you may have within reason.

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:14 am

Wow .. big difference between here and there .. our water is around 400 total hardness.

Dan

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:29 am

I was surprised when I got the water report back since I thought my water would be much harder. I am going to test it again soon since I know they change our water blend throughout the year.