English Mild

Share recipes here and discuss recipes posted in the recipe database.

English Mild

Postby Justin H on Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:01 am

I am just beginning to add salts to my water to modify the profile for a given recipe. What I want to know is:
•What advice does the club have as far as suggested additions? I generally feel "less is more".
•Do those of you who use RO bother with Epsom salt to up the Mg level?
•What spreadsheets/calculators do you recommend?
My source water contains:
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3: 12ppm
Ca: 4ppm
Mg: 0
Na: 7ppm
Cl: 7ppm
SO4: 0

My recipe is as follows:
Dark Mild
All Grain (6 gal) ABV: 2.92 %
OG: 1.033 SG FG: 1.011 SG
IBUs: 14.1 IBUs Color: 17.7 SRM

Ingredients
5.00 lb - Pale Malt, Maris Otter
Mash addition (74.1%) - 3.0 SRM

0.75 lb - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
Mash addition (11.1%) - 60.0 SRM

0.50 lb - Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L
Mash addition (7.4%) - 120.0 SRM

0.50 lb - Chocolate Malt
Mash addition (7.4%) - 200.0 SRM

21.0 g - Goldings, East Kent
Boil 60 min (14.1 IBUs)

1.00 Items - Whirlfloc Tablet
Boil 15 min

1 pkg - West Yorkshire Ale Yeast
Wyeast 1469

Profiles for Recipe
Single Infusion, 154*F

Notes:
Pre-Boil vol: 7 gal,
Grain absorption: 0.8 gal,
Dead space: 0.4 gal,
= 8.2 gal
Strike: 5 gal (3qts/lb) 160*F
Sparge: 3.2 gal 170*F

Thanks in advance for any insights.
User avatar
Justin H
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:40 pm
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca

Re: English Mild

Postby DrDually on Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:01 am

Adjusting water chemistry can be very rewarding, not to mention flavorful
The numbers posted seem very low as compared to as tested numbers in my area (Costa Mesa/Santa Ana). Where did these numbers come from? They just seem suspect to me
Cities draw water from several areas and chemistry can and will change through out the year.
After reviewing the water report published by the city, I purchased the LaMotte Test Kit and found the report was significantly different than results obtained from the kit
One sure way to get the desired water you need to brew the next great pilsner or RIS, is to go RO then adjust as needed
Otherwise for a little over $100 the LaMotte test kit is an investment that will certainly pay dividends
Just my .02 worth

K:-)
Chris aka Dr Dually
drdually@att.net

Life is tough. It is even tougher when you are stupid. John Wayne

Bottled and enjoying: Nada, zip
Kegged: English Brown, American Amber, Double Barrel Ale
Next up: Kolsch
User avatar
DrDually
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Santa Ana, CA

Re: English Mild

Postby Justin H on Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:08 am

DrDually wrote:The numbers posted seem very low as compared to as tested numbers in my area (Costa Mesa/Santa Ana). Where did these numbers come from? They just seem suspect to me


Good catch. It's not a municipal water source. The water I'm using is Arrowhead Drinking Water, though the numbers are published, not tested, so they still may be suspect.
User avatar
Justin H
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:40 pm
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca

Re: English Mild

Postby indianajns on Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:51 pm

Hi Justin. I use EZ water but I hear Brun is good too. If you have issues plugging your numbers into EZ water give me a call.

On a side note. Your Arrowhead water is much closer to RO water than I would have expected. I sent my RO water to Ward labs to see how close my under the counter 5 filter RO system could get to zero. It isn't zero. But, for all intent and purposes it is zero as when I plug these numbers into EZ water I don't see a shift in pH when I punch in what Ward sent vs 0's across the board for RO. I do see a shift in Residual Alkalinity but only minimal. I've attached my Ward RO water report in case anyone is interested.

Water1.pdf
Ward water report RO
(74.7 KiB) Downloaded 148 times
User avatar
indianajns
Club Vice President
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:54 pm
Location: Yorba Linda

Re: English Mild

Postby brahn on Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:40 pm

•What advice does the club have as far as suggested additions? I generally feel "less is more".

I add whatever gets me to my target water profile.

•Do those of you who use RO bother with Epsom salt to up the Mg level?

I do. Not sure if it's really worthwhile, but I try to get within a reasonable range of my target water.

•What spreadsheets/calculators do you recommend?

I use the one built into Brewers Friend since that's where I build my recipes and track my brews.
User avatar
brahn
Club IT Director
 
Posts: 1749
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm
Location: Tustin, CA

Re: English Mild

Postby Justin H on Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:59 pm

Here is what I came up with using the EZ Water Calculator. Does anyone see any obvious errors? Thanks again for a helping me stumble through this. (Here is the pdf, because I know this won't display correctly)
EZ_water_calculator_3.0.2.pdf
(2.4 MiB) Downloaded 132 times

Mash pH
"Effective Alkalinity (CaCO3 ppm)" 153
"Residual Alkalinity" 23
"ESTIMATED Room-Temp Mash pH" 5.55
"Desired Room-Temp Mash pH" 5.4 - 5.6

Mash Water Additions (grams):
Gypsum CaSO4 1
Calc. Chloride CaCl 6
Epsom Salt MgSO4 4
Baking Soda NaHCO3 2
Chalk CaCO3 3

Resulting Water Profile
Calcium Magnesium Sodium Chloride Sulfate Chloride / Sulfate
(Ca ppm) (Mg ppm) (Na ppm) (Cl ppm) (SO4 ppm) Ratio
Mash Water Profile: 166 20 36 160 112 1.43
Mash + Sparge: 102 12 25 100 68 1.47
Palmer's Rec Range: 50-150 10 - 30 0 - 150 0 - 250 50 - 350 Above 1.3 may enhance maltiness
User avatar
Justin H
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:40 pm
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca

Re: English Mild

Postby brahn on Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:05 pm

Looks pretty good to me.
User avatar
brahn
Club IT Director
 
Posts: 1749
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm
Location: Tustin, CA

Re: English Mild

Postby DrDually on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:03 am

The chloride/sulfate ratio is on the high side
This will result in a very malty beer
Also the mash pH is a little high
I usually aim for 5.41-5.42

:happybeer:
Chris aka Dr Dually
drdually@att.net

Life is tough. It is even tougher when you are stupid. John Wayne

Bottled and enjoying: Nada, zip
Kegged: English Brown, American Amber, Double Barrel Ale
Next up: Kolsch
User avatar
DrDually
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Santa Ana, CA

Re: English Mild

Postby Luckbad on Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:31 pm

I am... obsessive about water, let's say. I only have a moment to comment, so I'll get right to it and will come back with a better reply if I remember.

I start with Reverse Osmosis water. I start with 5% of the numbers from El Toro Water District's annual report (because my RO system gets TDS to about 5% of normal). You could also just assume everything is 0 across the board.

I used to use 3 separate spreadsheets, all of which I have modified over time for my own setup.

Now I use 0 spreadsheets and rely on Brewer's Friend:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/mywatercalcs/

I get my ratios right according to whatever flavors I'm going for. I tend not to go more than 2:1 or 1:2 sulfate/chloride ratio.

I do make sure Magnesium is at 10 or so and calcium is at 50 or so.

Rules of thumb that I live by:

- Less is more, except when it's not. Aim as low as you can and check your pH during the mash. Aiming low allows for more adjustments to take place during the mash.
- Calcium should be 50-150 ppm
- Magnesium 10-30
- Hard cap on Alkalinity as CaCO3 is 300, soft cap is 250
- Sodium should be 0-150 (~100 gives you a nice round flavor, >150 or so and salt comes out)
- Chloride 0-250, 100+ for impact on flavor
- Sulfate 50-150 for most beers, 150-350 for very bitter beers
- I usually just adjust the mash water now and dilute the final profile with however much sparge water I use. If I fall low on calcium, for example, I'll add a little more in the boil
- If you're worried about pH and feel you might have to add too much salt to counteract dark grains, don't mash all of them. If I brew a super dark beer, I sometimes will steep any of the grains that don't need to be in the mash. It will still have impact on the pH going into the fermentor, but not on the mash itself. Or, you can use pickling lime. Much more impact than chalk on pH (MUCH more, don't use much).

Bypass the spreadsheets and use Brewer's Friend. It'll save you time and headaches. I spent years with spreadsheets and find that their calculator is nearly as good and a lot more straightforward.

Oh, also... you can get a sense for the impact salts will have on a final beer by adjusting a completed beer with them. Just do a few calculations and add a little chloride, sulfate, and sodium in different amounts.
User avatar
Luckbad
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:35 pm

Re: English Mild

Postby Luckbad on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:25 am

indianajns wrote:Hi Justin. I use EZ water but I hear Brun is good too. If you have issues plugging your numbers into EZ water give me a call.

On a side note. Your Arrowhead water is much closer to RO water than I would have expected. I sent my RO water to Ward labs to see how close my under the counter 5 filter RO system could get to zero. It isn't zero. But, for all intent and purposes it is zero as when I plug these numbers into EZ water I don't see a shift in pH when I punch in what Ward sent vs 0's across the board for RO. I do see a shift in Residual Alkalinity but only minimal. I've attached my Ward RO water report in case anyone is interested.

Water1.pdf


Thanks for the report! I haven't had one done for a couple years. I used to have TDS of 40 and now I generally get less than 20.

I love water.
User avatar
Luckbad
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:35 pm

Re: English Mild

Postby Justin H on Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:20 pm

DrDually wrote:The chloride/sulfate ratio is on the high side
This will result in a very malty beer
Also the mash pH is a little high
I usually aim for 5.41-5.42

:happybeer:


I am going for a malty beer so I was leaning heavier on the Cl- than SO4-, but I am really not sure how far to push it in the Cl- direction. Does this look excessive or just on the malty side?
As far as mash ph, 5.55 seems high to me too. I am hoping to be somewhere between 5.2 - 5.4. A few people on here have shared that their experience with EZ Water is that it calculates about 0.3 units higher than measured. 5.55 was just hedging my bet.
User avatar
Justin H
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:40 pm
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca

Re: English Mild

Postby indianajns on Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:52 pm

A few people on here have shared that their experience with EZ Water is that it calculates about 0.3 units higher than measured.


Keep in mind EZ water seems to shoot high when using base RO or distilled. It predicts much closer, in my experience, when using local filtered water. With that said, it seems that your water is almost RO when looking at the numbers you provided so, if it were me, I'd assume EZ will put you .2-.3 above actual room temp mash pH.
User avatar
indianajns
Club Vice President
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:54 pm
Location: Yorba Linda

Re: English Mild

Postby DrDually on Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:34 am

Justin H wrote:
DrDually wrote:The chloride/sulfate ratio is on the high side
This will result in a very malty beer
Also the mash pH is a little high
I usually aim for 5.41-5.42

:happybeer:


I am going for a malty beer so I was leaning heavier on the Cl- than SO4-, but I am really not sure how far to push it in the Cl- direction. Does this look excessive or just on the malty side?
As far as mash ph, 5.55 seems high to me too. I am hoping to be somewhere between 5.2 - 5.4. A few people on here have shared that their experience with EZ Water is that it calculates about 0.3 units higher than measured. 5.55 was just hedging my bet.


It does seem to be on the high side
If you are using a digital pH meter, let the mash water stand for about 15 minutes to stabilize then check
If using pH strips...get a meter
:cheers:
Chris aka Dr Dually
drdually@att.net

Life is tough. It is even tougher when you are stupid. John Wayne

Bottled and enjoying: Nada, zip
Kegged: English Brown, American Amber, Double Barrel Ale
Next up: Kolsch
User avatar
DrDually
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Santa Ana, CA


Return to Recipes



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest