What does oxidated beer taste like?

[Haemon]

I just managed to get my latest (a double IPA, kit from O'Shea's) into the keg, and just to make sure it was at least potable, I tried a sample. Aroma is spot-on, clarity is fairly good, and the color is fine, but the flavor-- weird. Something in the forefront of the taste is just... OFF. I have a gut feeling that it'll decrease with age. Maybe it's the result of an infection (and that'll be the last time I EVER try to rush sanitation) but I don't really know.

My palate is not as developed as I would like it to be. Can someone describe what oxidated beer tastes like? In case someone is brave enough to try a sample, it just got in to the keg thismorning at 27.6psi@68F, so it'll be about a week or so, I think. I do have some 0.5L EZcap bottles for transportation of samples.

[bwarbiany]

Unless you've had big problems in process, I don't think oxidation would cause much of a problem at this point. Oxidation problems tend to come on over time. The common answer for taste is "wet cardboard".

What's the OG? High gravity brewing tends to have its own pitfalls that don't appear in lower-grav samples. I can think of a few potential points for error:

1) Not enough oxygen in the beer during yeast reproduction phase.
2) Too high of a temperature during yeast reproduction phase.
3) Underpitching.

I can't exactly say I have the answer for doing it 'right', as I don't think I've every brewed anything over about 1.080 that actually tasted right. Most of the beers I've tried in that range have had a harsh bite on the front of the palate.

I've got control over #2 and #3 above, now, but I probably won't attempt another high-grav until I have some sort of aeration system.

[Haemon]

Thank you for the comment. You got it, though, it's OG was 1.088 (FG 1.022). It has that harsh bite, not a wet cardboard taste. I can't quite describe it any better though (thanks for taking down the term glossary, BJCP ).

So the problem is likely aeration, how ironic that I thought it was an overabundance of oxygen. Have you noticed that the harsh bite goes away after a few months of sitting, though? That's what happened to my last batch (weizenbock, 8.8%). And now I'm slated to brew a Belgian Christmas tomorrow morning, expected ABV says 10-11%... eugh.

OK, any recommendations for aeration? I will be making use of some Fermax, maybe that will help?

[lexuschris]

Heya Haemon,

For describing & understanding off-flavors, I found John Palmer's chapter on Common Off-Flavors helpful. Take a look, and see if any of those sound like your flavor....

For example, I wonder if the 'bite' is a hot, or solvent-like bite from high fusal alcohols. The result of a high fermentation temp...?

Brad mentioned several good points, especially for higher gravity worts. It is extra important to pitch the right amount of yeast, and to aerate the wort well. Mr.Malty's pitching rate calculator is handy for figuring out how many packets or vials to pitch for your batch. It also computes for starters.

For wort aeration, you have vigorous shaking or splashing, aquarium airstone or pure-O2 airstone. The best is the latter, but does cost some $$$ in extra equipment. There are a few choices here.

A lot of off-flavors will mellow out over time, so just keep it aging for a few weeks.

--LexusChris

[bwarbiany]

For aeration, my current method is that as I'm pumping it to the fermenter, I leave the pump outlet way up at the top of the fermenter so I'm spraying it in through open air. Sadly, this is probably just about "the least you can do", but it's better than racking/pumping it to the fermenter and keeping the tube outlet all the way at the bottom under the liquid.

My recommendation for any high-grav ales would be to invest the money in an actual aeration system.

But just as important, make sure that you're properly chilling your wort and not pitching your yeast too hot. Back when I was a new brewer, I'd often pitch at 75-80 degrees and then let the beer continue coming down in temp. I did this because I didn't have proper equipment to chill down into the 65-degree range. I firmly believe this caused quite a few off flavors with the yeast reproducing at too high a temperature. If you can't chill to this temp using your equipment, I'd suggest rather that you just put the fermenter into the fridge until it reaches the right temp before pitching your yeast.

[BrewMasterBrad]

Here is a great article on flavor descriptors.

[oc eric]

It sounds like the beer is "hot" which could mellow out over time. Higher than 1.080 gravity beers are a whole different ball of wax. Aeration is necessary for healthy yeast when brewing at that gravity. I ordered some aeration equipment, but it is on backorder

[Haemon]

It does have a sharp flavor but I wouldn't describe it as alcoholic, unless it came from a non-ethanol, in which case I wouldn't stand a chance of being able to identify it-- I try and avoid drinking rubbing alcohol Thank you so much for the common off-flavors link, though, that is SUPER helpful and I'll be printing that out right now.

I have a 12.8cu/ft freezer chest with a temp controller running at 68F. It's not perfect, but I was hoping it would be better than my closet. Maybe I should adjust down, just in case? Advice?

According to Mr. Malty's Calc, even if I used a half gallon starter, this single vial of WLP570 (dated best by 3/15/10) isn't going to cut it. I could simply store the aerated wort in a carboy and pick up another vial from Eric on Thursday, or I could try the starter anyway. Advice?

[maltbarley]

I have a 12.8cu/ft freezer chest with a temp controller running at 68F. It's not perfect, but I was hoping it would be better than my closet. Maybe I should adjust down, just in case? Advice?

If you haven't already, get a double drilled stopper and put your temperature probe directly into your wort via a thermowell (like this).

[Haemon]

thank you all for your help! I've decided to just let the wort sit until Thursday, airlocked and conditioning at 68F. I didn't even bother to chill it, since it'll be there for awhile, it's still around 90F. Hopefully that will do until I can get the proper amount of yeast. For the record, OG is 1.068, which is lower than I'd expected-- kit says to expect an ABV of upwards of 9%.

Hope everyone's having a good Memorial Day! I'm off to a homebrew party in Fullerton.

[lexuschris]

Here is a great article on flavor descriptors.

Wow, a really great read! Thanks Brad!
--LexusChris

[bwarbiany]

thank you all for your help! I've decided to just let the wort sit until Thursday, airlocked and conditioning at 68F. I didn't even bother to chill it, since it'll be there for awhile, it's still around 90F. Hopefully that will do until I can get the proper amount of yeast. For the record, OG is 1.068, which is lower than I'd expected-- kit says to expect an ABV of upwards of 9%.

Hope everyone's having a good Memorial Day! I'm off to a homebrew party in Fullerton.

I'd chill it ASAP. Sitting until thursday is 3 days to potentially let any nasties gain a foothold.

What's your yeast? I'd buy some dry tomorrow and get it started. Barring that, get your chest freezer down to 35 degrees to make sure nothing is going to be growing in there.

[brahn]

I agree with Brad: the colder, the better. I had a batch where the dry yeast I was using was dead and it took about 3 days before I pitched more yeast and fermentation got started. That batch came out fine, so if your sanitation is good you've got a good chance. Still, keeping wort around that long is tempting fate and keeping it cold will increase your odds.

[oc eric]

Where is your back up package of yeast?

[Haemon]

I can't drop the temp, there are two other batches already in the unit, fermenting...
So... I should pitch the yeast NOW? Straight from the slant? Without a starter? A month and a half after the "best by" date? And then pitch MORE yeast when I get it?

I don't doubt any of you, really I don't, so if someone says Yes, I'll do it.

Where is your back up package of yeast?

1328 E. Orangethorpe Ave in Fullerton, why?