Judging is subjective and there are many factors that go into a score including the things that bwarbiany points out. That's why it is important to enter the same beer in more than one competition
Well said Brent and Brad. As new BJCP Judges you now have a much wider perspective of how a beer is actually supposed to be judged. I've been a Recoginzed BJCP judge for 3 years now and have been judging for almost 6 years and I've learned a lot from the judges who trained me in the finer aspects of beer. I've actually had the pleasure (and pain) of judging 5 best of show rounds and it's pretty amazing to taste some of the 1st place beers and we've scratched our heads when an obviously infected beer made it to a 1st place in a category (and that was after opening both bottles) while others are just mediocre examples of style.
On the OC Fair, I concur that there is a huge lack of experienced BJCP level judges that are asked to judge this. The list of novice and amatuer judges is about 3 to 1 and I had 2 co-judges in Am. Ipa's that had judged the previous year but knew nothing about how a beer's supposed to be judged. While judging with them I pointed out the good points and the faults in each beer. They were amazed at what they'd been missing about judging as I explained what's required in a beer has to follow the BJCP style guidelines to a "T" and any "off" aroma's or flavors will knock the score down for each one. As Brad and Brent will agree, it's HARD to know everything about every style and sub-category of every beer. There's 23 categories and most have at least 3 and some 6 sub-category's with some being widely different and we don't brew or enjoy certain styles of beer but get "thrown" into having to judge it due to the lack of judges at most competitions.
I hope to chat more on this when you get your score sheets back and see what kind of feedback you got as well as the qualifications of your judges.
Sorry for the long post, but I thought I'd add my $.02
Cheers,
Lyn
Everybody has the right to be stupid. Some people abuse the privilege.
I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it.
What I don't Know Far out weighs what I do.
Whorst wrote:Interesting. I guess I should just shut up until I get all the information.
Well, "shut up" might be a little harsh.
Don't take the comments here personally, no one knows you yet so it's hard to gauge if you are an excellent brewer or just one of the many people who think they brew the greatest beer ever and everyone else should think so too. Judging from your post on finings, I'd have to guess you're at least better than average.
Most of the guys here that have piped up about it are all certified judges or started the BJCP class at the very least, so I think they take judging criticism a little (too) personally.
Well, the Bitter is long gone. I have 4 gallons of my Belgian Dubbel. I live in Mission Viejo, so the odds of you drinking it are high. I also have a beer I need to rack, that should be ready to drink in about 2 weeks. I used 60% Maris Otter and 40% Durst Pilsner Malt. It also has a tad of Honey Malt. Hopped with Amarillo and Centennial. I prime and fine the corny and serve on my beer engine. Here's a picture of my bar:
Very nice!
I'm in Orange so you're pretty close.
I'll see you at the party Sat. at the Fair and hope to sample some of your beers.
It's the one day of the fair that they let people bring beer into the park without question!
I did not judge in your categories, but maybe the judges who did judge your beers will be in attendance so you can ask them directly.
Cheers,
Lyn
Everybody has the right to be stupid. Some people abuse the privilege.
I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it.
What I don't Know Far out weighs what I do.
I serve most of my beers on the engine. I'm a sicko for cask ale. I lived in Britain at one time and turned into a cask ale whore. I'm working on a Timothy Taylor Landlord clone at the moment that uses copious amounts of Styrian Goldings. That's going to be my next brew. So yes, I will no doubt invite you local guys over for a pint or ten at sometime. Even if you're not local. My lady friend and I entertain fairly regularly. A nice Saturday for me is smoking something on my smoker and pulling pints on the engine. I brew a very nice Bitter that you can drink 5-7 pints of and still have room for a whisky or two. I like to drink socially and I like to have a few. Unfortunately I can't drink 5 pints of Double IPA.
Regarding the bar, we bought it from an outfit in Orange. They're on Tustin Ave. Really nice stuff.
I'll keep you posted. Probably best for me to have 10 gallons on hand. 5 gallons goes very quickly when presented around people who like to drink beer.
Whorst wrote:Well, the Bitter is long gone. I have 4 gallons of my Belgian Dubbel. I live in Mission Viejo, so the odds of you drinking it are high. I also have a beer I need to rack, that should be ready to drink in about 2 weeks. I used 60% Maris Otter and 40% Durst Pilsner Malt. It also has a tad of Honey Malt. Hopped with Amarillo and Centennial. I prime and fine the corny and serve on my beer engine.
So based on your recipe, it seems you've got a nice Brittish Pale ale made with American hops? I too am a big user of MO as my base malt in almost all of the beers I make. I love the flavor it gives the beers after months of cold conditioning that I cannot get from plain old 2 row. Must be the floor malting that gives it that "magical" flavor.
I made a California Common 3 years ago that was the only beer I ever got a 45 on and at MCAB VIII, it was judged by a Grand Master III judge, Steve Piatz, and he gave it only a 40 and said that the water had a bit too much carbonate's in it, and it also won the category for the Sam Adam's Happy Holiday's Homebrew comp before they revived the longshot comp in 06.
Looking forward to meeting you and maybe some of your beers on Saturday.
Cheers,
Lyn
Everybody has the right to be stupid. Some people abuse the privilege.
I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it.
What I don't Know Far out weighs what I do.
Whorst wrote:I serve most of my beers on the engine. I'm a sicko for cask ale. I lived in Britain at one time and turned into a cask ale whore. I'm working on a Timothy Taylor Landlord clone at the moment that uses copious amounts of Styrian Goldings. That's going to be my next brew. So yes, I will no doubt invite you local guys over for a pint or ten at sometime. Even if you're not local. My lady friend and I entertain fairly regularly. A nice Saturday for me is smoking something on my smoker and pulling pints on the engine. I brew a very nice Bitter that you can drink 5-7 pints of and still have room for a whisky or two. I like to drink socially and I like to have a few. Unfortunately I can't drink 5 pints of Double IPA.
Regarding the bar, we bought it from an outfit in Orange. They're on Tustin Ave. Really nice stuff.
I'll keep you posted. Probably best for me to have 10 gallons on hand. 5 gallons goes very quickly when presented around people who like to drink beer.
Yeah, it's a Brit/American version of a summer ale you'd find in an English pub in the summer. I really like the Amarillo hop. I fermented it with Safale-05, which is the only dry yeast I use. I think it's wonderful for American styles, and will make a nice lagerish style beer if fermented cool(around 60F). For my English beers I use WLP-005 British Ale from White Labs. I've found that its a grumpy bastard unless you use a starter. Lag time is substantial without a starter with this strain. I may try Safale-04 again, but I've had problems with it attenuating. Produces nice, malty beers, but masks hop character.
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