OC Fair Best of Show!

spkrtoy · Post by **spkrtoy** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:55 pm

My wife and father in law went to the fair today and went to the Beer Display and saw one of our brewers, Mike Yasuma (Rezzin) won a blue ribbon and Best of Show!

Way to go Mike!

I'm hoping I'll be well enough to go to the appreciation party on this Sat. at the fair to sample some of the other winning beers!

Whorst · Post by **Whorst** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:35 pm

I entered 2 beers that were world class. I didn't place at all. I suppose I'll need to wait and read how I scored before I decide if I'll enter again.

spkrtoy · Post by **spkrtoy** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:25 pm

I entered 2 beers that were world class. I didn't place at all. I suppose I'll need to wait and read how I scored before I decide if I'll enter again.

First off, welcome to our forum, but I'm puzzled by your post that you entered 2 beers that were "world class"? How and what category did you think they were that they did not?
Seem's strange that this post is made here, and without any category's or style's mentioned and yet the results have not been made public yet.

My wife's visual of the homemade beer display case earlier today, July 15th at around 3 pm, for the Best of Show and it was one of our extended brewer's club member's Munich Helles who was the brewer and she recoginzed the the name and called me to tell me. I know Mike Y. and he'w a great brewer! we've learned a lot from each other over the last 3 years and between the 2 of us, make better beers!.
I have checked the Oc fair website and the results will not be made public on the OC fair site until after the 1st week of the fair. (guess they want us to go and visually see who won what and where?)

Care to explain how you did "not place"? and why you know this for a fact?

Just curious

Whorst · Post by **Whorst** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:47 am

I went to the Fair on Sunday afternoon and viewed the results. Results are on display in the wine garden. There was one guy who won in almost every category. He must have entered a beer for almost every category.

backyard brewer · Post by **backyard brewer** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:00 am

Whorst wrote:I entered 2 beers that were world class. I didn't place at all. I suppose I'll need to wait and read how I scored before I decide if I'll enter again.

Hi Whorst, welcome aboard and hope to see you around.

Did your beers place at any other competition? The OC Fair comp is an interesting animal and there are complaints every year on the judging. I've never been to the actual judging, but rumor is there are few experienced judges and a lot of judges that don't even brew. That being said, I still enter for two reasons; it's our 'home-town' competition if you live in OC. The brewers party is a blast and you get a free ticket to the fair. I don't enter this competition looking for good score sheets or suggestions I can actually use but I have gotten them.

I understand your frustration though when a proven beer doesn't score consistently. I only entered one beer, a Strong Scotch Ale. It place 1st at Mayfaire, beating out Jamil Zaineshef and Virg Redman. It didn't even place in the IEB competition and only got a third at OC Fair.

Whorst · Post by **Whorst** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:08 am

I entered an English Bitter with a starting gravity of 1.035 and a Belgian Dubbel with a starting gravity of 1.065. Both of these beers in my opinion should rate over 40. I'm not a terribly arrogant person, but I would love to taste both beers that beat mine. If mine rated well and didn't win, well I'm ok with that.

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:19 am

Congrats to Rezzin!

Dan

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:39 am

Whorst wrote:I entered an English Bitter with a starting gravity of 1.035 and a Belgian Dubbel with a starting gravity of 1.065. Both of these beers in my opinion should rate over 40. I'm not a terribly arrogant person, but I would love to taste both beers that beat mine. If mine rated well and didn't win, well I'm ok with that.

I had a milk stout that placed first in the SW region of the AHA national comp, and was the 1st-place stout in the San Francisco region of the Sam Adams LongShot. It didn't place at the local IEB competition, and while I'm not sure if it placed at OC Fair, I never got a call that it finished first in category, so we'll see...

But it's tough to say that a beer "should rate over 40", unless you're a BJCP judge. Over 40 scores are pretty hit-or-miss. My milk stout scored a 38 at the AHA national competition, and a 38 was enough to wint he category. If you're in the mid-30's or above, that's generally a good score. If you're in the low 30's or below, you probably won't place (although sometimes a 31-34 will pull in a 3rd place).

Post by **brahn** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:33 am

Keep in mind that the score in a competition is not an absolute number, it's more of a comparison against other beers in the flight. So you really can't say that a beer should be over 40 without knowing the judges, the conditions, and all the other beers your beer was judged against. Like Brad said, if the beer scored mid-30's or better it's probably a very good beer.

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:03 am

Just had to chime in on the "world class" subject. From a judging standpoint, world class is a beer that scores 45 or better. That is very rare. I judged more than 30 beers at the IEB comp a few weeks ago and I only scored one beer over a 40 (that just happened to be the same beer that won BoS at the OC Fair). While there may be a lack of experienced judges at the OC Fair, the best beers usually do rise to the top regardless of the experience level. What you will find with less experienced judges is that they do not fill out the score sheet as completely as an experienced judge would. When I enter a contest, I want some feedback on my scoresheets so that I can improve my beers regardless of whether they placed or not. With all that being said, I have several first place ribbons to my credit and the highest score I have ever received is a 42. According to the BJCP, that is "excellent", but not "world class". Unless you have several 45+ scores under your belt, I would hold off on declaring your beer "world class" even though, in your opinion, it may be very good.

Post by **brahn** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:12 am

I judged more than 30 beers at the IEB comp a few weeks ago and I only scored one beer over a 40 (that just happened to be the same beer that won BoS at the OC Fair).

Really? I don't remember you judging light lagers with me.

It was Mike's Helles that won BoS, not the Cali Common. (I liked the Cali Common better when I had it at IEB though.)

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:23 am

BrewMasterBrad wrote:While there may be a lack of experienced judges at the OC Fair, the best beers usually do rise to the top regardless of the experience level. What you will find with less experienced judges is that they do not fill out the score sheet as completely as an experienced judge would.

I somewhat agree, somewhat disagree. My milk stout took 1st place in the SW region of AHA, and 1st place in the west region of LongShot. It didn't place at IEB, with both judges scoring it a 31.

I think sweet stout is a category not many judges have a lot of experience with. When I look at the BJCP guidelines, everything about that stout seems to absolutely nail 13B. I didn't get any notes on any score sheet (from IEB or AHA) describing any technical flaws with the beer. My assumption, then, is that the judges for IEB were not especially familiar with milk stouts, since it's a relatively rare category. Or, of course, it could be palette fatigue / order in flight / etc... If they had just drank a very hoppy RIS, I could see them having trouble picking out the balance of the milk stout.

One of the AHA NHC 1st round judges, though, was a National rank and loved it. (Still waiting for my 2nd-round score sheets, where I hope to get more feedback)

Whorst · Post by **Whorst** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:28 am

Interesting. I guess I should just shut up until I get all the information.

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:35 am

brahn wrote:
I judged more than 30 beers at the IEB comp a few weeks ago and I only scored one beer over a 40 (that just happened to be the same beer that won BoS at the OC Fair).
Really? I don't remember you judging light lagers with me.

It was Mike's Helles that won BoS, not the Cali Common. (I liked the Cali Common better when I had it at IEB though.)

My mistake, same brewer, different beer. Just goes to show that Mike is an excellent brewer.

Judging is subjective and there are many factors that go into a score including the things that bwarbiany points out. That's why it is important to enter the same beer in more than one competition. My Oktoberfest scored a 40 at Pac Cup but only a 23 in the first round of nationals. Stuff happens.

Oskaar · Post by **Oskaar** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:02 pm

I have to agree with Brad on this one.

While guidelines look and feel clear, they are for all intent and purpose just that, guidelines. I've sat with a number of high ranking judges, and you'd be surprised what they miss as well as what they get in the judging rounds, and then re-discover or miss completely in the BoS rounds.

There are several factors at play in judging including but not limited to sensory accuity, regional familiarity with style and experience (as mentioned by Brad) but that's not the whole story at the judging table. All judges are not created equal, and some have been judging for years but aren't necessarily great judges, while others are new with better palates and sensory analysis skills than long time judges. This is also complicated by the fact that your palate sensitivity changes day to day, so there are some days when you will pick certain things up and some days when you won't.

Bottom line is that whatever collections of judges there are gathered at any given competition is going to be mixture of different factors so the end result will depend on the resource in the judging pool, the skill of the organizers to balance judging tables with a mixture with good, average, poor and unknown skill level judges. Sounds depressing but it's the reality of judging and competitions.

Cheers,

Oskaar