Amber Lager

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:53 am

OK ... posting this for feedback. Lemme know whatcha think! (and testing my new copy of Beersmith)

Dan

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Bighead Amber Lager
Brewer: Big Head Brewing
Asst Brewer:
Style: Vienna Lager
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (0.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.49 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 11.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 90.61 %
6.1 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3.13 %
6.1 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.13 %
6.1 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.13 %
0.75 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (45 min) Hops 10.5 IBU
0.75 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (30 min) Hops 10.5 IBU
0.75 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1 Pkgs Southern German Lager (White Labs #WLP838)Yeast-Lager

Mash Schedule: Mash
Total Grain Weight: 12.14 lb
----------------------------
Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Step Add 15.18 qt of water at 162.5 F 151.0 F l>

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:53 pm

What ... no comments from the peanut gallery? Is everybody just really busy or is this a perfect recipe?

Dan

jward · Post by **jward** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:07 pm

I usually don't have a lot to say about recipes. I thought the C120 was odd but we used it in the BC Challenge Amber. I would expect 2 row instead of the Pils. You have a lot you can do with an amber.
(At least now if nobody wants to comment on the recipe they can chime in telling me I'm wrong.

)

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:02 pm

I thought the BC Challenge Amber was an Ale and not a lager ... or am I just having chicken memory? Would that explain the Pils versus the 2-row?

This is a George Fix recipe (or something akin to anyway) ... for a Vienna / Amber lager ...

I agree with you John, C120 seems a bit much for the style but then again, it should improve / enhance the body, mouthfeel and head retention along with providing the amber color.

I'm tempted to give it a go just because of the reference to George Fix (and because I'm exploring lagers!).

Dan

Post by **brahn** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:08 pm

I've never brewed an amber lager, so I really don't have any comments. Sorry.

The C-120 will also give you a very different flavor from the other caramel malts and I think the combination will probably give you a nice depth of flavor.

brew captain · Post by **brew captain** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:54 am

The recipe looks like it will give you all the graininess you want, but will be seriously missing out on the malty factor. I think you need a big dose of Munich or Vienna malts in this one (like 20%) and drop the darker crystals as your software indicates to keep the color in line with the style. That and/or consider starting your boil with the first runnings and continue to boil until you complete your sparge. Then boil for 60 minutes and hop as shown. That will create a lot of melanoidins which will fill in the maltiness and give you some great flavor/color. I would not mash in any higher than you show because you don't want too heavy a body (who does) and in fact I would go a bit lower (146'-148') if you add the Munich/Vienna malt.

Melanoidin malt or even some Aromatic could do if you don't have the Munich or Vienna...

Cheers!

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:13 am

Robert! Thanks for chiming in. So how is life with 5?

Let me see about a tweak or two ...

So even with a 90% Pils base, you think maltiness will be understated? Estimated IBUs are relatively low (26) so on balance, I would think that the base malt would be a bit more emphasized and the various crustal malts would provide some interesting flavor depth.

I like the suggestion of cooler mashing and starting the first running boiling. I didn't get it in the recipe (took the defaults) but I will probably boil for 90 minutes ... In the Zainashef/Palmer book they frequently suggest boiling AG for 90 minutes to reduce DMS. Would that also raise melanoidins?

Dan

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:32 pm

I agree with Robert.

A Vienna should not be sweet and all the crystal malt will give just that. Use some Vienna or Munich instead. To get more color, you can use a touch of Carafa or other dark roasted malt (just enough for color, not flavor). See my Vienna recipe in the database. I am actually brewing one of these later this month.

When using Pilsner malt, I always boil for 90 minutes. It will boil off any DMS and you will develop more melanoidins and color. Robert's first running boil is a good idea, but it makes it difficult to dial in your OG and your final volume. If you are okay with some variation in your final product, then go for it.

By the way, I was on vacation otherwise I would have answered much sooner.

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:25 pm

So I'm intrigued enough by the original recipe that I want to brew it as is

BUT

in keeping with the feedback, here is my first tweak attempt. I added some Munich, dropped the C120, lessened the other Crystal malts and added a touch of Carafa for color. I'm still a touch high on OG .. and I'll consider adding a bit more Munich at the expense of the Pils .. and may drop a touch more Pils to get the OG back into the style. Comments?

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
9 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 85.39 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 8.99 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2.25 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2.25 %
2.0 oz Carafa I (337.0 SRM) Grain 1.12 %
0.75 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (45 min) Hops 10.9 IBU
0.75 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (30 min) Hops 10.9 IBU
0.75 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
1 Pkgs Southern German Lager (White Labs #WLP838)Yeast-Lager

I checked out Brad's recipe ... big difference between this one and that one ... think I'll peruse some additional Vienna Recipes.

Dan

P.S. Here is a Palmer recipe for a Vienna: Note the Crystal schedule!!!

Cold But Not Baroque - Vienna Lager
Malts

7 lbs. of Pale LME
1/4 lb. of Crystal 30 Malt
1/4 lbs. of Crystal 80 Malt
1/4 lbs. of Crystal 120 Malt
3 oz of Black Patent Malt (added separately for last 15 minutes of steep)

Hops

1 oz Liberty (4%) at 45 minutes
2 oz Liberty (4%) at 30 minutes
1 oz Liberty (4%) at 15 minutes

Total IBUs 29

Yeast
Bohemian Lager (liquid)
Primary at 45°F for 2 weeks, Secondary for 6 weeks (35°F).

Options

All-Grain

7.5 lbs. of 2 Row Lager Malt
1/4 lbs. of Crystal 30 Malt
1/4 lbs. of Crystal 80 Malt
1/4 lbs. of Crystal 120 Malt
3 oz of Black Patent Malt (at Mashout)
Mash Schedule - Multi-Rest Mash

Liquification 104°F 20 min
Beta Conversion 140°F 20 min
Alpha Conversion 158°F 40 min

Post by **brahn** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:32 pm

For another comparison, JZ's recipe uses only Pils and Munich malts. That said, if you're intrigued by the Fix recipe, just brew it. Worst case you end up with a really good beer that's not a Vienna lager. That doesn't sound too bad to me.

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:39 pm

FWIW, I have tried Palmer's Vienna. It was not great. John is a great brewer, I just didn't care for that beer.

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:25 pm

That's great feedback ... thanks Brad.

Dan