RIScommune

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:24 pm

My 48qt tun (with SS braid) will hold 20# of grain w/o problem if you need it. Kevin, let me know if you need to borrow it.

kevinham · Post by **kevinham** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:16 am

OK here is the second part of figuring out the recipe. How do I figure out or decide on how much water to use for the mash and sparge, and what temp to use for each. When should I plan on sparging more than once?

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:31 am

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

This is where most people who batch sparge learned to do it. You can use Beertools or Promash to calculate your strike water temp.

Give me a ring tonight and I can explain it over the phone if you need - it's a lot easier that way.

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:55 am

kevinham wrote:OK here is the second part of figuring out the recipe. How do I figure out or decide on how much water to use for the mash and sparge, and what temp to use for each. When should I plan on sparging more than once?

Everyone talks about how "easy" batch sparging is compared to fly sparging.

I've fly sparged since day 1 (of all-grain), and I can't see anything easier than "just keep 1 inch of water above the grain bed". I don't see how trying to measure two water additions, adding an extra vorlauf step, accurately understand how much water's lost in the grain, etc, is easier.

So you know how I started? When it came time to sparge, I'd duct-tape some aluminum foil inside my mash tun, poke some small holes in it, and use a pyrex measuring cup to pour water through the foil.

See here. (This was my old 5 gallon setup, back in my garage in Georgia) You'll see my sparge water in the pot on my left, I'm pouring through the mash tun, and the boil kettle is on the floor just barely in the photo. And it's so easy, I can drink a beer while doing it!

kevinham · Post by **kevinham** » Thu May 15, 2008 10:03 am

bwarbiany wrote:Everyone talks about how "easy" batch sparging is compared to fly sparging.

I've fly sparged since day 1 (of all-grain), and I can't see anything easier than "just keep 1 inch of water above the grain bed". I don't see how trying to measure two water additions, adding an extra vorlauf step, accurately understand how much water's lost in the grain, etc, is easier.

So you know how I started? When it came time to sparge, I'd duct-tape some aluminum foil inside my mash tun, poke some small holes in it, and use a pyrex measuring cup to pour water through the foil.

See here. (This was my old 5 gallon setup, back in my garage in Georgia) You'll see my sparge water in the pot on my left, I'm pouring through the mash tun, and the boil kettle is on the floor just barely in the photo. And it's so easy, I can drink a beer while doing it!

That's a good idea, and seems pretty easy. I like the idea of fly sparging better, just hadn't thought of anything that simple. I guess I will start doing some more reading specifically for how much water to use, and what temps and stuff.

kevinham · Post by **kevinham** » Thu May 15, 2008 10:08 am

Also I will be using Mike's MLT with a SS braid hose inside. From what I have read about fly sparging, the lauter design is important to prevent channeling. I am not sure how well a braid down the middle of the MLT would work for that. Any ideas?

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Thu May 15, 2008 10:18 am

Kevin,

I just shared a spreadsheet with you on Google. I don't remember where I found, probably from Denny Conn. Anyway, it does the calculations for you for batch sparging. I fly sparge myself, so I have never tried it out.

Brad

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Thu May 15, 2008 10:23 am

kevinham wrote:Also I will be using Mike's MLT with a SS braid hose inside. From what I have read about fly sparging, the lauter design is important to prevent channeling. I am not sure how well a braid down the middle of the MLT would work for that. Any ideas?

My tun won't work well for fly sparging.

jward · Post by **jward** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:12 pm

bwarbiany wrote:Everyone talks about how "easy" batch sparging is compared to fly sparging.

I've fly sparged since day 1 (of all-grain), and I can't see anything easier than "just keep 1 inch of water above the grain bed". I don't see how trying to measure two water additions, adding an extra vorlauf step, accurately understand how much water's lost in the grain, etc, is easier.

I used to batch sparge. I now fly sparge. As Kevin pointed out ones mashtun may dictate which technique is used. If you get channeling you better batch it.

The hard part of sparging for me was the draining rate. The more I sparge the better I can just eyeball it no problem. At first it was measure measure measure. My mashtun screen was leaking grain and would slow the draining and I'd have to re-set it. With batch it was drain as fast as it would drain.

If you don't like keeping water at one inch above the grain batch is easier.

When I batch sparged I measured the amount of water for the mash just the same as I do now using a particular water to grain ratio. To sparge I would top off with hot water to about half the needed water (around what my mashtun held incidentally). Vourlof and drain as usual. Then I would measure how much wort was collected in the kettle and add the missing amount to the tun for a second sparge. So while I did have to read how much was collected and then count the 4qt measuring cups I added to the tun I don't have to watch the spage to stop it when the kettle hits the mark. Draining wide open leaves me spot on no matter how much water the grain took up. This process used less time then fly sparging, at least for me.

The other benefit is not having to measure the gravity to make sure I don't oversparge. I have actually drained the sugar low enough that I stopped sparging and topped off with filter water to hit the desired gravity and amount of wort.

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:59 pm

Batch sparging is really easy... until you start doing 10g batches

Post by **brahn** » Sat May 17, 2008 5:29 pm

I batch sparge and I did my first 10g batch a few weeks ago. Besides the fact that the grain absorbed about 2g more than I expected it wasn't any more trouble than brewing a 5g batch. What have you found more difficult with 10g batches, Rezzin?

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:40 pm

brahn wrote:I batch sparge and I did my first 10g batch a few weeks ago. Besides the fact that the grain absorbed about 2g more than I expected it wasn't any more trouble than brewing a 5g batch. What have you found more difficult with 10g batches, Rezzin?

All that extra water. I boil in a keggle and with 5g batches and 1 burner, I would drain the tun into the keggle (my sparge water pot would be on the burner) and then lift the keggle onto the burner. With my last 12g batch, since there was no way I would have been able to lift it with 14 gallons of wort so I left it on the burner. I borrowed Lyns burner to heat the sparge water but had to raise the mash tun extra high so that I could gravity feed into the keggle.

With a tun filled to capacity, it being extra high so stirring was not as easy, and the extra setup - it was a pain. I was finally understanding the beauty of using pumps to move stuff around. Fortunately, I mostly do 5g batches.

Maybe it's just me. After 20 5g all grain batches, I was used to doing things a certain way and my process was good. It was like learning all over again sorta with the larger batch.

It's funny you mention the extra water absorption. I normally calculate .1g/# absorption but for some reason I came up short in volume with the 12g batch. I added water preboil and somehow still managed to hit my target gravity.

Post by **brahn** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:01 pm

Yea, I do have some of those same challenges. I generally do the first runoff into my kettle sitting on the ground and the second runoff with the kettle on the burner so that I can get the boil started faster. Lifting the kettle after the first runoff isn't bad, and I do this with my 5g batches too. I also lift the mash tun up higher after the first runoff so that I can run off into the kettle on the burner. It's a bit of a pain but I've been doing it for a while and I'm pretty used to it. I have been looking at getting a pump so that I don't have to worry about all this extra lifting. Somehow all of this still seems easier to manage than fly sparging ... it sounds complicated, but all of this really only takes a few minutes and then I can go back to doing other stuff while the mash runs off.

I saw that Brian had a march pump in stock last time I was there. I nearly bought it, but I still haven't worked out how I want to do all the fittings. I'm going back and forth between tri-clamps, stainless quick connects, and the polysulfone quick connects.

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:34 pm

Well you know you've got the tri-clamps mastered now so it should be a no brainer

I just don't drink enough or have enough friends who enjoy good beers to brew 10g at a time on a consistent basis. I'll just reserve those batches for special occasions or for when I know I won't be able to brew for a while.

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:41 pm

I just sampled the RIS and it's currently at 1.022 from 1.090 which puts it at 9% ABV and it tastes good. Kevin just dropped off his contribution and I'll be fermenting it in my fridge for the next few weeks.