Basic Yeast Starter Question

[bwarbiany]

Canning.... The answer is canning...

I'll make a 4~5 gallon all-grain batch of wort and then can it. To make a starter, I just Star-San a flask, open a jar of starter, pour it in and shake it up, drop in the yeast and put it on a stire plate.

Takes me about 3 minutes to make a starter.

You do realize that some of us out here would be willing to buy canned wort from you, right?

[Rezzin]

Rezzin, to use the microwave you need a flask that will fit in your microwave. It seems like that would make it difficult to do larger starters that way.

Couldn't I just use anything microwave safe and pour into flask or fermentation vessel (or keep it in the same container perhaps) after it's done boiling?

[BrewMasterBrad]

Canning is a great idea, I might try to make up a batch and can it before the next brew day. You can just store them at room temp. right? No need to refrigerate?

I store mine at room temp. My pressure cooker can hold six quart jars at a time, so canning five gallons can take a while. I just bought six half-gallon jars, so I am hoping that my next batch won't take as long. I cook the wort in the pressure cooker for 20 minutes at 15-20 psi.

For most of my ales, I just pitch the whole starter. For lagers, I make the starter a week in advance, let it ferment out, cold crash, decant, pitch.

Brad

[Oskaar]

Rezzin, to use the microwave you need a flask that will fit in your microwave. It seems like that would make it difficult to do larger starters that way.

Couldn't I just use anything microwave safe and pour into flask or fermentation vessel (or keep it in the same container perhaps) after it's done boiling?

It's the pouring process that will subject your wort to airborne and other contaminants, as well as the recieving vessel unless it has been sterilized. I make the distinction here between sterilize and sanitize because in canning and long term storage, pressure cooking is a necessary process to render the contents safe for later use.

This is somewhat akin to auto-claving which the process of subjecting organisms (obligate endospore forming anaerobic bacteria) such as Clostridium sp. to wet heat at sufficient pressure to neutralize the threat of spoilage and toxin production. Basically, what you're doing is since this stuff is going to be stored for a while is ensuring that there will not be any organisms present in sufficient enough numbers to establish themselves and cause spoilage or produce toxins.

Hope that helps,

Oskaar

[brahn]

Couldn't I just use anything microwave safe and pour into flask or fermentation vessel (or keep it in the same container perhaps) after it's done boiling?

Yea, you could pour into the flask I suppose. I guess that's no different from how I'm doing my starters now. You don't have to use a flask of course, it's just a convenient shape/size for doing the starter.

[Rezzin]

Rezzin, to use the microwave you need a flask that will fit in your microwave. It seems like that would make it difficult to do larger starters that way.

Couldn't I just use anything microwave safe and pour into flask or fermentation vessel (or keep it in the same container perhaps) after it's done boiling?

It's the pouring process that will subject your wort to airborne and other contaminants, as well as the recieving vessel unless it has been sterilized. I make the distinction here between sterilize and sanitize because in canning and long term storage, pressure cooking is a necessary process to render the contents safe for later use.

This is somewhat akin to auto-claving which the process of subjecting organisms (obligate endospore forming anaerobic bacteria) such as Clostridium sp. to wet heat at sufficient pressure to neutralize the threat of spoilage and toxin production. Basically, what you're doing is since this stuff is going to be stored for a while is ensuring that there will not be any organisms present in sufficient enough numbers to establish themselves and cause spoilage or produce toxins.

Hope that helps,

Oskaar

Hey Pete - actually I was only planning on trying the microwave method for making starter wort for larger sized starters. Like Derrin, I also can starter wort in 1 QT containers but since my pressure cooker only holds 7 at a time and I normally only make 1 batch (using DME) at a time. My cooktop sucks here so it takes a long time for the pressure cooker to come to pressure. I reserve the canned starters for ales.

I only recently started brewing lagers so until now, I've never really needed a starter over 2L.

Whenever I'm dealing with yeast or when my fermenting vessel is open to air, I normally light a few tea light candles around me as added insurance

[Rezzin]

Couldn't I just use anything microwave safe and pour into flask or fermentation vessel (or keep it in the same container perhaps) after it's done boiling?

Yea, you could pour into the flask I suppose. I guess that's no different from how I'm doing my starters now. You don't have to use a flask of course, it's just a convenient shape/size for doing the starter.

I noticed that using a flask also makes it easier to decant the spent wort w/o pouring out the yeast. For this last lager I made, I did a 1G starter using a glass vase as my starter vessel and because of it's shape, it made it somewhat of a pain to pour out the spent wort.

[kevinham]

It's the pouring process that will subject your wort to airborne and other contaminants, as well as the recieving vessel unless it has been sterilized. I make the distinction here between sterilize and sanitize because in canning and long term storage, pressure cooking is a necessary process to render the contents safe for later use.

What about canning using just the boiling water method? I don't have a pressure cooker, so would that be enough heat to sufficiently sterilize everything?

[Rezzin]

You can borrow my pressure cooker if you want. I just recently made a batch so I won't be needing in any time soon.

[kevinham]

You can borrow my pressure cooker if you want. I just recently made a batch so I won't be needing in any time soon.

Well that solves that problem. Thanks man. I just need to get some more DME, and I will be ready to make a starter batch.

[brahn]

Pete, I don't think the airborne contaminants or the receiving container is a problem if the wort is still at boiling temperatures when you pour it, right?

Of course pouring boiling hot wort isn't necessarily the safest thing to do, but at least we're not talking about a large volume.

[Oskaar]

As long as the liquid is boiling it shouldn't be a problem if you're using pyrex. Personally I don't pour boiling anything into glass unless it's pyrex.

Take a chance . . . Custer did!

Oskaar

[backyard brewer]

It's the pouring process that will subject your wort to airborne and other contaminants, as well as the recieving vessel unless it has been sterilized. I make the distinction here between sterilize and sanitize because in canning and long term storage, pressure cooking is a necessary process to render the contents safe for later use.

What about canning using just the boiling water method? I don't have a pressure cooker, so would that be enough heat to sufficiently sterilize everything?

No, you need to pressure can it. Wort doesn't have sufficient acidity for water bath canning. It needs to be brought to 250* for 15. I go 15 for 15, 15psi for 15 minutes.

You do realize that some of us out here would be willing to buy canned wort from you, right?

Wouldn't seel it to you but trade you for some good beer. I have a few qts I can part with right now.

Derrin, why the 3 different sized containers?

My canner will fit 7 quarts or 16 pints or 4 1/2 gallon jars. So, I can process more in pints than quarts. The quarts are a very handy size, but pints are great to feed a starter for a lager or to feed a yeast cake that has been cold stored for a while. The 1/2 gallons are great for lager starters or big ale starters.

[bwarbiany]

Wouldn't seel it to you but trade you for some good beer. I have a few qts I can part with right now.

I'm mostly doing the dry yeast thing right now, but if I come across a beer that I want to brew that I can't find a strain of dry that I like, I just might take you up on that.

Although, I'm about to move and will be brewing at my own house in the near future (instead of at my brother-in-law's, so I'll have control over the starter process again, and may not need it.