Emergency Fermentation Question

[Brewski]

So my fermentation isn't off to a very good start. I'm trying to make a Winter Warmer, and used 14 lbs. of light malt extract per 5 gallons water. Total volume after boiling is over 6 gallons, but anyways, I added 1028 London yeast after aerating the wort, and let it sit for about a week. The OG was 1.061, and after almost a week the gravity only changed to around 1.04. I think there was an issue with how I pitched the yeast, long story but it was a new brand and I'm not really surprised that I messed up. Anyways, so I pitched more yeast, just a Windsor packet that I had laying around, to try to get things going again. The airlock was bubbling for a few days, and just stopped today, so I checked the hydrometer and the reading has barely changed. It's around 1.036. Is the yeast simply not working? Any suggestions?

I was thinking about transferring to another bucket and pitching the last of the yeast that I have, which is English Ale WLP002. Do you think I should do this? Should I even bother transferring to a different container? Should I aerate again?

Thanks, I'm lost and would like to try to salvage this batch if at all possible

[lars]

Healthy yeast is a must. When you pitched the 1028 was it just the tube? Did you warm it or make a starter? How old was the windsor yeast? How was it kept? I keep all my yeasts in the fridge even the dry yeasts. I'm not too sure what is going on with your beer. It would seem like you've pitched enough yeast (if your OG was really 1.061). How are you measuring your gravity? Have you dropped your hydrometer (the papers inside can slide and give you off measurements). If it were my beer, I'd pitch some US 05, it is a monster yeast! And would probably save the batch, though you prob wouldn't end up with what you are after.

[brahn]

What temperature is the beer in the fermenter at? I don't know those yeasts well at all, but I'd guess that they'd be happiest around 68F.
Do you know what brand of extract you used? Some of them will only go to around 50% attenuation.
Did you make a starter with the liquid yeast? Especially for a bigger beer it's really important to make at least a 1L starter on a stirplate (you can get a nice, cheap one from Backyard Brewer on the board.) You should go with at least 2L if you're not using a stirplate.

So, you might try increasing the temperature depending on what it's at now, or swirling to get the yeast back into suspension. Just pitching a vial of WLP002 probably won't help, but it may work if you make a big starter with it. I'd shoot for a 1G starter without a stirplate. An interview I heard with Chris White he said it takes more yeast to restart a fermentation than to get one going initially. At your current gravity, it would probably be safe to aerate again, but you're definitely risking oxidation if the yeast don't use up all the oxygen.

[Brewski]

the 1028 came in this packet, with an "activator". it said to hit the packet, then shake, then just pour right into the wort... so i did that, but the yeast nutrient packet which was inside the bigger yeast package never broke, so i think that was the issue there. the windsor yeast was a few months old, but not past expiration. it was stored at room temperature, and i pitched it to a starter before adding. i only had it in the starter for about a half hour, there were a few bubbles, so i dumped it into the fermentation at that time. i'm confident the hydrometer readings are correct though.

i have a warming belt, so the temperature has been 68-70 degrees the entire time, which is exactly what the recipe recommended. the extract was briess light liquid.

i don't know how to do a starter really, other than with dry yeast where you add it to a glass of water until it starts to foam a little.

if i decide to add the liquid english ale yeast tonight, should i first transfer to a separate bucket to avoid commingling with the other yeasts? does this even make a difference? also, if i should do a starter, how do i do that with a liquid yeast? the directions on the vial say to just shake it up and put it in the wort...

[backyard brewer]

the 1028 came in this packet, with an "activator". it said to hit the packet, then shake, then just pour right into the wort... so i did that, but the yeast nutrient packet which was inside the bigger yeast package never broke, so i think that was the issue there. the windsor yeast was a few months old, but not past expiration. it was stored at room temperature, and i pitched it to a starter before adding. i only had it in the starter for about a half hour, there were a few bubbles, so i dumped it into the fermentation at that time. i'm confident the hydrometer readings are correct though.

i have a warming belt, so the temperature has been 68-70 degrees the entire time, which is exactly what the recipe recommended. the extract was briess light liquid.

i don't know how to do a starter really, other than with dry yeast where you add it to a glass of water until it starts to foam a little.

if i decide to add the liquid english ale yeast tonight, should i first transfer to a separate bucket to avoid commingling with the other yeasts? does this even make a difference? also, if i should do a starter, how do i do that with a liquid yeast? the directions on the vial say to just shake it up and put it in the wort...

OK, there's part of your problem. The 1028 "smack pack" is designed to energize and proof the yeast. It should be smacked 24 hours or so before you add it to the fermenter and it should swell considerably to show it's viable. The instructions really said to just smack it and add it? It didn't say anything about 24-48 hours ahead of time?

I wouldn't transfer to another bucket or move it at all. The less you muck with it the less chance you have of an infection. I'd make a big starter with that WL vial and pitch that or like Lars suggested a couple packs of dry US05 might do the trick as well. US05 is a pretty tough yeast.

[brew captain]

Dare I suggest that he re-aerate? I did not see any mention of yeast nutrient either. I would boil up some nutrient, pour it in, rouse the hell out of the carboy, pour in that 002 and give it a shot of O2.

I think he has more to worry about than storage stability at this point...


Cheers!

[Brewski]

you say to make a big starter with the WL vial, how exactly do i do that?

[brahn]

Not smacking the smack pack isn't the end of the world, but it would be better to do it in advance.

Making a starter is pretty simple. Go to http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php and skip to the section on "Starters and Stir Plates".

Yeast nutrient is a great idea too. I'd go with Brew Captain's advice only I'd make a starter with that 002 before you throw it in.

[brew captain]

I don't think a lot more yeast is the solution (plus you don't have time for that). After the dry yeast not taking off you must have a deficiency of some sort in your wort, not a shortage of yeasties. I would boil up a sugar solution, say a quart of about 1.050, and add the yeast nutrient to that for a minute, cool and pitch. If that doesn't get things moving then nothing will...

Cheers!

[brahn]

(plus you don't have time for that)

Why wouldn't he have time? The beer's not going anywhere...

[brew captain]

I would say this batch has a high chance of a contaminant taking hold and causing off flavors if not ruining the whole batch. The yeast may not be happy, but that does not mean other critters aren't completely happy with the current conditions. The reason we get away with our typical relatively unsterile brewing techniques is that the brewers yeast go ballistic when pitched into wort they have essentially evolved to consume. They outcompete all other comers if the stage is properly set.

I say time is of the essence any time you do not show a typical fermentation. This is not a monster by any stretch of the imagination so I think there is cause to be very concerned about the outcome of this batch...

Cheers!

[Brewski]

one more question... brew captain, you mention to give it a shot of O2, how do i do this?

[backyard brewer]

one more question... brew captain, you mention to give it a shot of O2, how do i do this?

Here is an oxygenation system from B3: B3 O2 system.

[brew captain]

If you don't have a means to inject O2 then consider racking the beer again, but let the wort fall from the neck of the carboy to the bottom and splash as much as possible.

Good luck!


Cheers!

[maltbarley]

As i figure it, with 14 pounds of any extract in 5 gallons, your starting gravity was over 1.090. Trying to get the yeast to start in the 7% beer is going to be a chore.