1A - Pilsner Malt

A place to discuss all things related to brewing ingredients.

Re: 1A - Pilsner Malt

Postby DrDually on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:47 pm

Thanks Brahn
I already use lactic acid and calcium chloride to adjust pH
However, would like to check pH with a meter to make sure it is as needed
I will PM you prior to next brew day and thanks for offer
Chris aka Dr Dually
drdually@att.net

Life is tough. It is even tougher when you are stupid. John Wayne

Bottled and enjoying: Nada, zip
Kegged: English Brown, American Amber, Double Barrel Ale
Next up: Kolsch
User avatar
DrDually
 
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Santa Ana, CA

Re: 1A - Pilsner Malt

Postby lexuschris on Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:45 am

I think you are all on the right track. I finished my spreadsheet, and in my last 7 brews, 2 of them had this grainy flavor to some extent. There are 2 factors common to these 2 beers, and absent from the rest: homegrown hops & no water salts used.

I've used my homegrown hops in other beers without any issue. I'm leaning more towards a lack of pH control by not adding any water adjustment salts.

I've been using a Palmer spreadsheet for water adjustments for a few years now, but have never measured the actual pH during the mash or sparge. I've also brewed some simliar pale beers in the past without noting this taste. Could there be a difference because of the lack of pH control AND my new equipment?

On my old gear, I would batch sparge by draining the MT for my 1st runnings. Then I would pour the entire sparge water volume onto the grainbed, quickly & with good force. The grainbed would be completely mixed with the new sparge water almost instantly. I would presume that allows for remaining grain sugars & acidity to lower the pH enough that it was not a big issue.

However, on my new rig, I am pumping the 1st runnings out, then going back and pumping the sparge water from the HLT onto the grainbed a bit more slowly and without much agitation. Could it be because the untreated sparge water was slowly filtering over the grainbed, and staying at a higher pH longer and thus extracting more tanins from the husks?

Last year, during a brewday at BrewmasterBrad's, I noticed he used Lactic Acid on his sparge water. Having never done that and loving Brad's beers, I got myself some lactic acid and have started using that on my last couple of beers. However, I did not do that for either of the 2 batches that went grainy. 1st one was before Brad's brewday. The 2nd beer was after, but I wanted to eliminate salts as a cause of the grainy taste. Looks like it could confirm it instead..

Love all the comments! This is really helping me! Thank you!
:cheers:
--LexusChris
"A woman drove me to drink, and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her." – W.C. Fields
User avatar
lexuschris
 
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:08 pm
Location: Corona del Mar, CA

Re: 1A - Pilsner Malt

Postby DrDually on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:40 am

lexuschris wrote:However, on my new rig, I am pumping the 1st runnings out, then going back and pumping the sparge water from the HLT onto the grainbed a bit more slowly and without much agitation. Could it be because the untreated sparge water was slowly filtering over the grainbed, and staying at a higher pH longer and thus extracting more tanins from the husks?

Yes
Have you tried continous sparging? This will lower the pH of sparge water
Otherwise treat sparge with lactic acid as well
The spreadsheet allows both calculations

Chris
Chris aka Dr Dually
drdually@att.net

Life is tough. It is even tougher when you are stupid. John Wayne

Bottled and enjoying: Nada, zip
Kegged: English Brown, American Amber, Double Barrel Ale
Next up: Kolsch
User avatar
DrDually
 
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Santa Ana, CA

Re: 1A - Pilsner Malt

Postby BrewMasterBrad on Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:22 pm

Astringency can definitely be the result of over-sparging or your mash pH getting too high during the sparge. You can also extract tannins by sparging too hot. Depending on your source water, you may benefit from buffering the mash on your pale beers with some calcium chloride or gypsum. Adding lactic acid to your sparge water to lower the pH can help as well. I haven't had a chance to check out spreadsheet, but that is probably a good place to start.

You are carbon filtering all your brew water, correct?
The future's uncertain and the end is always near
User avatar
BrewMasterBrad
Untappd Junkie
 
Posts: 3265
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Circle City Craft Beer, Corona, CA

Re: 1A - Pilsner Malt

Postby lexuschris on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:40 am

Yeah, been using a hard carbon filter for my water nowadays.

I did experiment with fly sparging a bit when I first got my rig, and I think that is what went wrong on the earlier batch of Pale Ale. Not only did I not know what I was doing, I was distracted and started pumping full speed wort out and sparge in. Did the entire 13 gallon collection in under 5 minutes. Rookie move. However, because of that, I switched back to batch sparging, which is what I've been doing for a few years now and have had good results. At this point, I'm trying to eliminate variables and hold constants until I get a solid batch of Pale Ale again.

I'm feeling pretty confident that my lack of sparge water treatment (ph too high) was an issue on both batches. Fast fly-sparging contributed a bunch on the 1st one.

At some point, I will have to get another batch going to test out this new theory and get me back to my pales.

Side note: My Beligan Pale Ale came out pretty good, so I'll bring that to the meeting next week. The gruit version will have to wait a couple of months .. too early to tell, but smelled rather phenolic. Same wort, same process, different yeast & spices. It always takes time for gruits to settle down....

Thanks all!
--LexusChris
"A woman drove me to drink, and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her." – W.C. Fields
User avatar
lexuschris
 
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:08 pm
Location: Corona del Mar, CA

Re: 1A - Pilsner Malt

Postby ocluke on Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:31 pm

Kai has a fairly extensive brewing water calculator that he's built. His blog post on it is here:

http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2013/01/29/a-new-mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

There is a link to the calculator at the bottom of his post.
Luke

MetaBrewing - A homebrewing blog documenting experiments with equipment, processes, recipes, hops, wild yeast, and whatever else happens to sneak its way in.
User avatar
ocluke
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: Costa Mesa

Previous

Return to Ingredients



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest